Turning Forty with Postpartum Depression, Postpartum Anxiety AND a Midlife Crisis

Stephanie: Hi, Brooke. Thanks for joining me today.

Brooke: Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to do this.

Stephanie: I am as well. I would like for you to introduce yourself to the audience, but I wanna give just a little bit of background that you and I for, oh, a handful of years, traveled in social groups that kind of overlapped.

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: So we knew each other at like parties and get togethers and things like that. But I don't think we ever really hung out together unless there were other people around from our sort of overlapping social groups.

Brooke: Yes.

Stephanie: Is that how you remember it as well?

Brooke: Yeah, exactly. I remember just seeing you at the same place as I was, but I don't think you and I ever really even sat down and had a one-on-one conversation without, you know, other people kind of involved. So

Stephanie: I agree. So this is such a treat for me and I was so excited when you reached out to me and told me that you had a story about turning 40, because it's not something I've encountered in any of my conversations yet.

Stephanie: So I'm very excited to, to get into this, but before we do, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself.

Brooke: I am originally from New Hampshire. I left New Hampshire in 2010 and moved to San Diego, California, where I met my husband, who was a born and raised native of San Diego. We met in 2013, got married in 2015 and then had our beautiful daughter, Everly in 2017 and then 2018 moved me out to Arizona for work.

Brooke: And we've been here ever since. And, yeah, it was, it was quite the treat to convince my, my husband who had been born and raised in the most beautiful place in the world to move to the desert.

Stephanie: Was that a difficult conversation or did he turn over pretty easily?

Brooke: Yeah, so at first he, he said, absolutely not.

Brooke: He's he's like, there's no way I'm not moving to Arizona. And the only reason it came up is cuz there was a promotion available at my job and I wanted it. And he's very supportive of my career, very supportive. But, we are living in San Diego, right. Who wants to leave that? And he's like, Brooke, look, i, I will move other places. He's like, I've never wanted to live in Arizona. I was like, I get you neither have I, but I went to work one day I come home and he's on the computer. He goes, apply for that job. I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, have you seen the price of the houses here? So in that moment I was like, are you, are you sure? Cuz if I put my name in, I can't back out. He goes, do it. And I didn't waste a minute and yeah, we've been here. He loves it now. He has no intention of ever going back. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's crazy. I would never have thought that I would end up in Arizona. I've never had any desire to live here, but we really, we do really like it.

Stephanie: And what do you do professionally?

Brooke: Oh, so I am currently a client relations executive at ADP Total Source. And I recently got a promotion to be a senior director of client success. And I'll start that next month. So what I do is I work with ADP's clients. I handle the HR side of things. I've been doing that now for about seven years. So that was the second job I got when I moved to San Diego and probably, hopefully, the, the last company I'll have to work for. I really, really like what I'm doing.

Stephanie: Oh, that's great. I was just having a conversation, um, with somebody else recently about how careers are so different now than they were 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. When I graduated from college, it was still conceivable that you could spend a career with a single company mm-hmm and it's so it's so much rarer these days. So it's amazing to think that you are at a place that you might just stay with for a long time.

Brooke: Definitely. Yeah. Before that, I mean, I was maybe doing two to three years. I just couldn't find the place that I wanted to be at. So, you know, to know where I am now and know that I really work for a great company with great people and don't wanna leave has been very refreshing.

Stephanie: That's great. So you turned 40 just before you moved to Arizona. Is that right?

Brooke: I did. Yes. So I turned 40 in October of 2017 and then we moved to Arizona in March of 2018, which I actually didn't even put together that big life change. Yeah. After being 40 as well, a lot happened in that six to nine months. So

Stephanie: And I wanna hear all about it. So start at the beginning.

Brooke: Yeah. So, like I said, I met my husband in 2013. We got married in 2015. And up until then, I truly wasn't sure if I wanted to have kids or not. I was, you know, I grew up with an absentee father and I wanted to make sure that when I did have a child, I had it with the right person, and I just never wished that on anyone else.

Brooke: So when I met Brett. I knew. I mean, I knew. We knew within three months we wanted to be together forever. We knew within six months we were gonna have kids. So of course being older and by the way, my maternity paperwork definitely said geriatric pregnancy, which why anyone would ever call it that to an emotional woman is beyond me.

Stephanie: I know they could do a better job with that.

Brooke: They could, yes. At one point it was called elderly pregnancy. I'm like, okay, geriatric might no, it's not better. So, you know, we knew pretty, pretty soon that we wanted to have children. We wanted to get married first. So as soon as we got married in 2015, we started trying.

Brooke: And of course being a little older, it was not easy. So we did have to go through some, some help. I didn't have to go all the way to IVF, which, you know, we're very thankful for. But we did get pregnant through IUI, which is the artificial insemination. It was a great process. It was very, you know, the doctors were fabulous.

Brooke: The lead up to it was tough because, you know, we had been trying for a year and getting that negative pregnancy test every month is very, very sad. Mm-hmm . And when we did the IUI, it was really kind of our one shot before we were gonna spend $40,000 to have a baby, or even do it. You know, we hadn't even gotten that far.

Brooke: So, you know, the day I found out I was pregnant, it was just sh I was shocked. I was completely shocked. I was like, we did this one thing that they told us had a 6% chance of working and it worked. And you know, of course throughout the whole pregnancy, I was very cautious. I was very nervous, but overall I had a really good pregnancy.

Brooke: I had gestational diabetes, which honestly for me was the best because I didn't gain a lot of weight, cause I had to be so careful with what I ate. And you know, in, in what I had, what I did eat something wrong or too much, I felt it. So I knew, okay. And don't do that. So the pregnancy was really good and I was still 39 when I had Everly.

Brooke: I had her in June of 2017. The birth was fine. Everything was great. And then they sent me home from the hospital and two nights later, I ended up back in the hospital. And that's really when a lot of my postpartum depression, anxiety, all of that stuff started.

Brooke: What happened was I, I had an infection in my uterus. So when Everly was born, something was left behind and it took care of itself, but it caused an infection. My body was trying to fight it and I had a temperature of 103. And I remember calling the nurse on duty, telling her I had this temp. And she said, you need to go to the hospital immediately.

Brooke: And I said, absolutely not. I'm not leaving my baby. And she said, well, you're gonna leave your baby forever if you don't go to the hospital. You need to get into the hospital now. At that point, my husband, thank God for him, made me go, cause I wouldn't have on my own. He made me go. She, at that point, had not eaten in 11 hours.

Brooke: So I'm sitting in the hospital emergency room by myself because he had to be with her. And I'm by myself. And I am hysterically crying because I think at this point that I am starving my baby to death. And I am just, I've never cried like this in my life. Like tears just pouring and sobbing that a stranger came up to me with tissues.

Brooke: Didn't even say a word, just handed me the tissues and just walked away. It was so, so bad. And I was on the phone with a girlfriend of mine who had just had a baby and I was texting her and I was like, Brenda, I'm starving my child. I'm starving my child. She's like, Brooke, why don't you use formula? Uh, by the way, I was breastfeeding. I didn't say that.

Brooke: She's like, why don't you use formula? And I'm like, oh. Like my brain just wasn't connecting. Right. Mm-hmm I didn't think of it. So I immediately call my husband. I'm like, we have samples in the, in the kitchen. You know, go get those and start using that.

Brooke: So that was my first real experience for what it was like after having a baby. There's so many emotions. There's so much that you're scared of. And you know, for you to be sick on top of it is just the last thing that you want to happen. So I ended up getting admitted back into the hospital for a week. I told them I wouldn't stay unless the baby could stay. Yep. Um, they let her stay with me.

Brooke: So otherwise I probably would've left. And what would happen is I would get better and then the temperature would come back. And you had to be fever free for 24 hours. And then my blood pressure started going up. So there was a lot of things that, you know, my body just wasn't, wasn't fighting as quickly as I think it may have been able to if it was younger, you know. So mm-hmm, a lot of, it was, it was pretty scary. And, you know, I was in the hospital for about a week. I got home the day before father's day, and never looked back and just started to heal. Right. As any normal pregnant woman would do and had a little bit of the baby blues, which is, you know, just kind of being sad and being off. And then it started to change.

Brooke: And I was actually talking to my mom about it this weekend telling her I was doing this. And I said, you know, I didn't realize how bad I was until I got out of it. Right. So I've always struggled with depression and anxiety. It's been something in my life that I'm very vocal about. I'm not ashamed of it. It's been a part.

Brooke: So I, I knew that postpartum depression and anxiety was gonna be part of my story. What I didn't know was how bad I had it. It's really just scary that I got through it without anything. Without the help of a doctor, really. You know what I mean? I kind of managed myself through it. And I was, again, looking at things to, to prepare for this.

Brooke: And what was happening to me was not only was I going through postpartum. I was actually actually also going through midlife crisis. Cause I was turning 40 and

Stephanie: Oh God, Brooke.

Brooke: Yeah. So one of the things, when I was looking up, you know, what's the signs of a midlife crisis. And I grabbed it on my phone cause I wanted to make sure I remember what it is. Looking at it, it's things like, you know, feeling unfulfilled; feeling nostalgia; feeling boredom; emptiness; impulsive decisions; dramatic changes. I was going through all of that. But then on top of it, it was compounded with this postpartum depression and anxiety. So I was not only those two things, I was also the midlife crisis - all kind of into this wonderful ball of Brooke - , for the first year after her daughter was born.

Brooke: So, so yeah, that's kind of like the overview of where I started after turning 40.

Stephanie: Oh my goodness. That's a handful.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: You were familiar with depression and anxiety at any rate. So you already had coping mechanisms. You already had strategies for managing periods of time when you were feeling those things and sort of stuck in those places. How was this postpartum version of it different than the ones you had faced before?

Brooke: So it was very different. All of my tools, none of them worked. And, and not only did they not work, I didn't realize I needed to use them, either. Usually, you know, when I would get depressed the, the way it, it kind of manifested is that I didn't wanna do things.

Brooke: I was kind of in bed and watching TV or sleeping. And, for me, to get myself out of it, it's, it's forceful, right? Like, you've gotta get up. You can't do this. You've gotta do that. Like just little things, you know. Okay, today you're gonna go and you're gonna clean your car. Or, you know, today you're gonna go to Target and go pick something up.

Brooke: But when I had Everly in the postpartum, I wasn't coping like that because I was in such, I guess, what you would call a fog. Like my brain was just not even functioning. I was just doing everything I needed to do each day without thinking about it, but I also wasn't leaving my house, which was one of the things I would cope with with my depression is I would go out. I would get out and get some fresh air. Well, I wasn't leaving my house because I was so scared. And this is where the postpartum anxiety comes in, that something was gonna happen to Everly.

Brooke: So we lived in San Diego, home of the sun. Right? And Everly is - you can't see me 'cuz this is a podcast - I'm very pale. And my husband is blonde, pale, blue eyes. So of course our child was pretty light. And you can't put sunscreen on a baby until, I don't even know how old, six months, I think.

Brooke: So I had this overwhelming fear that if I took her out, she was gonna get a sunburn, and something was gonna happen to her. Very silly. You know, now that I look back at it, because she would've been, you know, between the car and the, the store. It's not like I was gonna take her and sit her on the beach and lay her out, you know?

Brooke: Um, but I just had this overwhelming fear and I would not take her anywhere. So therefore the coping me mechanism that I had for my depression before wasn't working. Cause a lot of it was get up, do things that are, you know, kind of forcing you. With the baby, you spend a lot of time sitting on the couch, holding the baby, feeding the baby, you know?

Stephanie: Right.

Brooke: So again, you can't kind of force those activities. I was forced to sit down and take care of a baby. And then the anxiety, the way I've had it in the past is, it comes up in panic attacks and I feel it very much in my chest. With postpartum anxiety, it was very much fear. I was so scared. Of everything.

Brooke: I was scared to take her out of the house. I was living in a place that had a balcony and I was so scared that I was gonna go out into that balcony, and I was gonna throw her off the balcony. I didn't want to. I didn't think I, I, it wasn't like it was that postpartum where you wanna hurt, you know, it wasn't that. I was just so scared that something would happen and I wouldn't be able to control myself and I'd suddenly throw her.

Brooke: Looking back at it now that thought is not, it's not normal. Right? And I don't normally go out into a balcony and think, whatever I have, whatever I'm carrying, I might throw. I've never thrown anything off a balcony. And I knew that that wasn't gonna be good. And so, yeah, it was just those little things like that, that.

Brooke: You know, really just stop me in my tracks. And again, like I said, I, I didn't realize how bad I had it and how bad I wasn't managing it until I was away from it. And even now, so my youngest sister just had a baby. And she takes her baby everywhere. And she's not scared and, and he's fine and he's surviving it. And she took him grocery shopping when he was a couple weeks old and I'm like, Ooh! You took him to a store.

Brooke: Like I wouldn't, I was just so scared to do that. And oh, also seeing her and what she's not scared of doing, made me realize, oh gosh, like I really had the postpartum depression and anxiety. Really bad. Yeah.

Stephanie: So, and you're still even realizing how bad it was almost five years later. You're still getting insight into, oh, that was that was even worse than I thought it was.

Brooke: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Definitely. Yeah. It's it's just one of those things. I, I see something or somebody acting a certain way with their child and their child being perfectly fine and healthy, and me going, oh wow. I would never have done. Just cuz of fear. I was just scared.

Brooke: I was scared of everything. I was scared and too, I think a lot of it came with the fact that it wasn't easy getting pregnant, that we pretty much knew she was gonna be our only child. So it's that fear of losing something you've wanted for so long and losing something that is so precious to you when you love so much.

Brooke: Right. While it might not be realistic, like I was not gonna bring her out to Target and she was gonna get a sunburn that would put her in the hospital. Like that's just not realistic. But in my mind, it was just, that's what would've happened if I took her out. Like I can't take her out. She's super, super light skinned. Like she's gonna get burnt. So let's just stay in the house all the time.

Stephanie: How long did this last for you?

Brooke: So it, it lasted for quite a while and, and I did, you know, eventually get help in the form of medication. It was probably, it was before we moved here to Arizona, cause I was still in California. I would say Everly was about six months old and I was in, um, it was around Christmas time.

Brooke: And so, so this is where the midlife crisis comes in. So I turned 40 in October and my mother-in-law wants to have a party for me. I'm like, no, I don't wanna be around people. I don't wanna have a party. Like, no. Stephanie, I don't think you came to my 30th, but my 30th party was like, it was a deal. Right? Like people planned it. And I was like, I wanted everyone there. I mean, I am not shy about my birthday. And so my 30th was this like grand party. My 40th, my mother-in-law wanting to invite a couple people over, I was like, don't you dare. You know, I just, I didn't wanna be around anyone. I didn't want her around anyone.

Brooke: So I turned 40 in October and a couple months later about December the, uh, midlife crisis comes in. So I start thinking about college and I start thinking, oh my goodness. I start thinking about those were the best days of my life. I will never get them back. What I wouldn't do to go back there again. You know, I took it for granted and I miss all my college friends and I'm like romanticizing. And college was a blast. Don't get me wrong. I loved it. Great friends, but I romanticized it. Right? Like it was not perfect. There were definitely troubles. But in my mind, at the time, you know, I've got my anxiety and my depression, and then the midlife crisis coming in, and I've got this baby whom I love, but I'm like, I didn't have to take care of a baby when I was 18, 19 years old.

Brooke: Like I didn't have this responsibility. And I would cry and cry and cry. And again, that like, it wasn't even a normal cry. It was those sobs of like just chaotic crying. And how sad I was that I wasn't in that part of my life anymore. And, and what is so weird about it is I wasn't unhappy in in my life now. I have a magical life.

Brooke: Like my husband was amazing. He was, is one of the best dads I've ever seen. I mean, that girl is his life. My daughter was, she was great. She slept well, like she was not a problem. You know, like not colicky or not up on night. But in my mind, I was in this hell and in my fantasies in college was like where I should be and where my perfect life was.

Brooke: And it was weird. It was things that I'd never experienced before when it came to depression or anxiety. I mean, even with, with us and the friends that we had, like, I miss that time. You know, I mean, we had a blast, right.

Stephanie: Oh, yes, we did.

Brooke: Yeah. little too much fun sometimes. Um, but you know, and I miss it a lot and I reminisce about it in a, in a good way. And it's always a smile. Right? It's always like, those were the days. I would love to visit it again.

Brooke: But during this time I was sobbing, like, why can't I go back there? How do I get back there? What do I do to get back there? That's when I was happy. And it was just, it was sad. You know, it was sad that I was going through that and I have this beautiful baby and I'm like, tears are falling on her face cuz obviously I'm holding her and I'm crying. And it lasted probably the first six to nine months of her life is, is really when it was really bad.

Brooke: And, and I don't know. Well, I do know, I do know what changed. So around that same time I did finally go to a doctor and, mm-hmm, I was like I, I need to change. Like something's, something's not right. Like this, I don't feel good. I'd not been on depression medication for a couple of years because we were trying to get pregnant.

Brooke: And I was like, you need to put me back on something. And the medication definitely worked and then they wanted to do some therapy and I went once. And I cried and I cried and I was like, couldn't even get the words out. The poor woman was like trying to take notes and I'm like, and then when I was in college, the best days of my life. I mean, it was, it was so bad. And so bad.

Brooke: And I just had that one, like spill out of all my emotions and I just let it all out on the floor. And she was like, okay, let's make a follow up appointment. And for whatever reason, I never did. But the medication started to help me feel better. You know what I mean? I started to see reality and I stopped getting so scared to take Everly out. And I stopped being so depressed.

Brooke: And I look back at it now and I think about college now and I do the smile. Right. I like, I had a great time. I smile. I don't wanna cry and wish that I'm there. Like nothing about me wishes I was 18 again, you know? Well, a few things about me do, but overall,

Stephanie: Right, right. Mostly it's like thighs and butt and belly that wishes you're 18, right.

Brooke: Hundred percent, hundred percent.

Brooke: Yeah. So I think that helped. And then I started to do some stuff to take care of myself, physically, you know, with like diet and exercise and stuff like that. But again, I didn't realize that I was getting myself out of a deep depression and, and postpartum anxiety. I thought I was just trying to move on with my life and just trying to get myself to be healthier and feel better. But all of those things compounded together got me where I was. And then moving to Arizona and starting a new career. And you know,

Stephanie: let's throw that on top.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: of everything.

Brooke: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie: And barely feeling human again. And now you're gonna make a major life move with a new family.

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: Oh my God, Brooke.

Brooke: Yep. And that was, you know, crazy. So then I started the imposter syndrome, you know. I started thinking, what am I doing? I don't, I'm not qualified for this. Who put me in this role?

Brooke: I've got people that are reporting to me, and depending on me. I'm making decisions. I can't make these decisions. So I kind of felt like I was faking it till I make it. I look at it now, and what I've accomplished, and I realize I wasn't faking it. I did have it in me to do it. And I did a pretty darn good job.

Brooke: But at the time, you know, again, it was all kind of piling on top of me. Like I wasn't good enough. I wasn't a good enough mom. I wasn't a good enough worker. I wasn't a good enough wife. And those pressures that come on you. And then to be in your forties where, you're looking at other parents, they're half your age. You know, I mean, I'm not one of many. There's very few 40 something new parents with young children. And, you know, you don't have that support group in that way. Like the 20 somethings and 30 somethings are great. But there is something about that midlife crisis part that makes it different. It really does, and they just can't relate yet.

Brooke: You know? I mean, they will. One day, they'll get that part.

Stephanie: Right.

Brooke: Right now they don't. So when I find a woman who's in her forties with a child Everly's age, I'm like, you need to be my best friend because there's not a lot out there, right?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. This sounds like such a grueling year for you, from the time you gave birth and went through all these, emotional upheavals and, and fear. And then you turned 40 and you had no interest in celebrating whatsoever, which I completely understand. And then you uprooted your life and started a new career and a new place and with no support system

Brooke: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that was tough too, the no support system. So my family at the time all lived in New Hampshire. My husband's family lived in San Diego, right. So I was here alone.

Brooke: And when they would visit me, it was, it was, I almost didn't want them to visit because I didn't wanna say goodbye. Because there went my support system. And, you know, it was hard because I was in a new job. It wasn't easy to go out and meet people. I mean, I could meet people at work, but it's, you know, you want somebody that's in the same stage of your life to kind of help support you through it.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Brooke: And I couldn't find that anywhere. And not having my family right there, it was, it just, you know, compounded and just made it worse. It was. You know, I just, I felt very alone and, you know, I had my husband and he was great. But you know, there's just some things where you just need a bigger support system.

Brooke: You can't, you can't really survive with just the two people kind of leaning on each other and supporting each other. You need those people around you to help you get through it. So, you know, luckily since then, I've definitely built my system here and I've, I've, you know, made some wonderful friends and that's really been able to relate to me and help me through. But yeah, that first year I was, I was very alone. I mean, I was very alone.

Stephanie: You needed the village. The it takes a village, village. And yeah. And moving to Arizona. You had no such thing.

Brooke: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. I mean, I knew no one. I knew nobody out here. At least when I moved to San Diego, my best friend lived there.

Brooke: So I had somebody and, you know, I could kind of just slide into like her life and then meet my own people. Here, I moved here and I moved 30 minutes away from my job. So it's not like I was really close to the people that I worked with cuz everyone lives, you know, all over the place. Mm-hmm and I knew no one. We moved on a street with barely any kids.

Brooke: Yeah, it was really lonely. My family's in New Hampshire and all I want is my mom and my sisters to be with me to help me raise this child that, you know, by the way, I don't even know what I'm doing. I mean, every mom says that they don't, but like my family was always shocked that I was gonna have a kid.

Brooke: They're like, what do you mean? Do you even know what to do with a child? I was like, I'll figure it out. I got it. You know? But

Stephanie: Centuries of moms have figured it out and have had it.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: So I I'm sure it's been going fine in that way, but I totally understand wanting to have your mom and your sisters and,

Stephanie: Oh my goodness. I'm truly gobsmacked at, at the story of this year in your life. Let me jump forward and just ask how, how are things now? It's a couple of years later.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: How are you feeling? How is your world? So, so much tell me, tell me that everything turned out okay.

Brooke: It did. Everything turned out great.

Brooke: Once I kind of started doing the right things for myself and, and really focusing on my mental health and, and talking about it. I think that's one thing that's helped a lot is that I'm not very quiet about it. For a lot of years, especially when I first found out that I had depression and anxiety, it was embarrassing.

Brooke: You know, somebody would ask me, what are you taking that pill for? And I didn't wanna say that it was for anxiety. And I look back now thinking, wow, that was weird. Now I'm like, yep. Gotta go get my anxiety pills. Right. And, you know, since then I've really. It's been so much better. I've built my village here and you know, my parents just moved here last year.

Brooke: So that is super helpful. Yes.

Stephanie: Wonderful.

Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. So I have my parents here. Everly's turning five next month. She is spectacular. I'm not scared to take her places. Um, to be honest with you, I am the parent that shows up at her preschool and goes, oh my gosh, I forgot the sunscreen. So I'm not scared that she's gonna like burn by the sun.

Brooke: She's still very light, but she has not come home burned to a crisp yet. So yeah, I got through it, but I think about all those people that have to go through it alone, and don't, A, recognize what's happening to them because somebody who even knew about that stuff didn't truly recognize how severe I was. It's hard. It's, it's one of those things I think we don't talk about enough, especially the anxiety, the postpartum anxiety stuff. If you can recognize it, and you can work through it, and you get your people around you, and you talk to a doctor probably more than I did, you know, it, it does turn out okay.

Brooke: And I look at myself now as a mom and you know, I'm strong. You know, I still have the anxiety. It's still there, but I'm not as anxious as I was. I feel very much like I have raised an amazing human, um, still a long way to go. But so far she's pretty much unscathed. And I can look back now at that period of my life and you know, not so much laugh.

Brooke: I'm not laughing at myself, but look back and go, wow, that was intense. But at the time it was just life. And I remember thinking at the time like, wow, this is what motherhood is? This is what I'm gonna be for the rest of my life? This like crazy.

Stephanie: Oh God.

Brooke: Yeah. Like I wouldn't have, that wouldn't have went very well for me.

Stephanie: That must have been overwhelming on top of everything else to think this is what it's gonna look like forever.

Brooke: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Stephanie: My goodness.

Brooke: Because when you're in it and when it's, that's how you're living, you don't see an end to it. You don't see that you're gonna feel better or, or be better.

Brooke: And it's such a strange, it's so hard to explain, cuz it's just, it's all feeling. I mean, sometimes it's visual, but mostly it's just feeling. And, you know, I know how to put on the face and pretend things are okay. And that sometimes even makes it worse, cuz nobody's knowing what you're going through.

Stephanie: Right. Right.

Stephanie: And it, it feels to me a little spooky that you could be someone who has experience with depression, anxiety, and has tools, and has strategies. And yet, a whole different flavor of it creeps up on you that you don't even realize is the same beast as the one you already know. And so you don't, one, as you said, your tools don't work. And, two, you don't even necessarily recognize it as the same beast. So that, that seems a little scary to me that it, that it could surprise you that much.

Brooke: No, and it definitely did. I mean, again, like I knew that I would have postpartum depression. I actually don't think I really knew that much about postpartum anxiety.

Brooke: And there's also, which luckily I didn't get, there's also postpartum O C D. So there's so many things that I think women just don't realize. It's, you know, we talk a lot about postpartum depression and you see the, you know, the, the sad stories of, of where that leads. But I think the, the anxiety, the OCD, those things that we don't talk about.

Brooke: They don't manifest in the exact same way. It would for somebody who has it prior to having a child or prior to, you know, being postpartum, it can manifest very differently. And if you're not somebody who's in tune with your feelings and recognizes it, it's very easy to think this is just what it is.

Brooke: This is just what it's like to be a mother. This is just what my life's gonna be going forward and not get the help that you need to right yourself. To make yourself feel like a normal human again, that doesn't get scared of everything, or isn't wishing they were 18 partying in fraternity basements.

Brooke: You know, you you're present in the moment. Right? And that's the thing is it takes you away from the moment, those moments with your child, that you'll never get back. So, you know, I, I really think it's something that we need to talk about more and something that needs to be educated on more that it's not just baby blues. It's not just feeling sad.

Brooke: And then of course, I think, and I was researching this earlier. They say that postpartum's not worse with age or any different with age. But I think that it is. I, I really do looking at my own experience. Depending on what you are going through, it can be much different than I think it would've been, if I was younger, if I was in my early thirties, not my forties. You know?

Brooke: Um, but that is Dr. Brooke saying with no certification or credentials behind that. That's my own. my own,

Stephanie: your experience and

Brooke: yes,

Stephanie: uh, and perspective for sure.

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: Tell me about how your husband managed while you were going through all of this. I mean, what was, what was his reaction to you being in a place that, I'm thinking of my husband who would just wanna help?

Brooke: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: So, so tell me about how Brett managed.

Brooke: Yeah. And he's the same, right? He wanted to help. What do I need to do to make it better? How can I make it better? And you know, what I, what he struggles with, and he still does now, is that he can't. There's nothing he can do.

Brooke: And he's a fixer. He wants to fix it. And honestly, a lot of it, I, I hid from him. So he was working in California, which if you're gonna have a baby, have it in California. You get five months off. Pretty much most of it's paid. Yeah. Oh, wow. So that's the other thing. The fact that women go back to work after six weeks, more power to them. I could never, I couldn't have done it. I could not have done it. So, you know, I was home with her all day alone while he was working and a lot of it happened when he wasn't home. You know, I, I, I really hid that from him and I think, and I'm gonna have him listen to this. I don't think some of these stories, he probably didn't even know because I didn't wanna burden him with it because I knew he couldn't fix me and he couldn't fix it.

Brooke: But when he would see me in those moments, you know, he would take charge and, you know, okay, let me get Everly for a little while. You go in the room. You go rest. Let me cook dinner tonight. And, you know, and, and just support me. What can I do? And, you know, trying to understand which is what I love about him, you know?

Brooke: Cause he would say to me, Brooke, why are you so depressed? We've got a beautiful daughter. We're happy. There's no problems with us. Like we live in this beautiful place. Like what is wrong? And you know what he didn't understand because he just didn't know is that it doesn't have to be a, a cause and effect, right?

Stephanie: Yeah.

Brooke: It it's all chemical. It's all emotional. And it's not like I had a bad day, so I'm sad. Whereas in his life, if he gets depressed, it's because he had a bad day. So he's trying to understand it. And I love that about him, that he really tried to understand. And then of course, you know, he's always the one pushing me.

Brooke: I, I try to be very strong and in doing so I, I probably hurt myself because I'm like, I don't need help or I don't need to go see somebody. Like with the hospital, I don't need to go to the hospital. Brooke, your temperature is 103. I'm taking you to the hospital. Right. So he pushed me to, to get that help that I needed.

Brooke: And he, he is, my, my rock when it came to that, you know. He luckily was very stable when I was very unstable.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. I have a, a sort of a similar situation with Patrick, my husband

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: because I, I have been managing a chronic illness for five years now.

Stephanie: So in 2016, we were gonna, well, let me go back even one more. So in 2015, my dad found out he had, um, he called it prostate cancer, but not the good kind. So we had gotten engaged in 2015 and we were gonna get married in 2016. And we were planning a wedding for around Memorial day. In February, we got news from my dad's doctor that sooner, rather than later was gonna be better. Mm-hmm. So we scrapped the whole plan. And we planned and executed a wedding in 30 days. We did not make it smaller. We did not cut things out. We just sort of sped everything up. I had sent out, save the date cards.

Stephanie: And I think it was like the following week that we got the news. So literally the next week I sent out a card that said, Nope, here's your invitation, different date. And we did online RSVPs and, and so we had a, a beautiful, magical wedding. I always love to think of it as my dad's last best day.

Stephanie: And so, so we got married at the end of March. And then Pat went on his bachelor party in April. I had my shower in April. And then, um, we went on our honeymoon. I think it was like the last week of May, into like the beginning of June. And when we were on our honeymoon, we were just exhausted. It was not a like joyous kind of occasion. It was like, uh, we went to a Caribbean island. It was beautiful. I've always wanted to go back and sort of have an actual vacation there. Mm-hmm. Um, but we kind of knew that we needed to like recover from everything that had happened, but also prepare for everything that was going to happen.

Stephanie: So we got back from our honeymoon at the beginning of June, and my dad died in the middle of August. So we got back and it was just like straight into the downfall. And so it, it was a tough, tough time. So we lost my dad in August. And then of course, the first set of holidays, I mean, it was just awful. In the spring of 2017, I got what I thought was a cold. It was like right around Easter time. I got this cold. I kind of was like knocked on my tush. Brain wasn't really working. I was exhausted. And, I sort of got knocked over and I have literally never gotten back up from that.

Brooke: Oh, wow.

Stephanie: At the time I thought, oh, I'm just having a stress crash. Cuz I had, you know, a year of like incredible stress. Mm-hmm. Not to mention, I run my own business too. So, you know, I couldn't just take vacation. So I thought, oh, it's, this is just stress catching up with me. So let me just take really good care of myself and, you know, try to do a lot of the things you were talking about. Eat better and, sleep and, gentle exercise. And, that wasn't working. So I started working with naturopaths. They found there's an autoimmune thyroid condition that had been unattended. So we started working on that. And then I found out that I had Lyme disease.

Brooke: Oh, oh no.

Stephanie: Oh no is right. Because I don't know if you remember this about me, but I am not an outdoorsy kind of gal.

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: Somebody sent me a thing years ago. I think it was one of those e-cards that said, I'm outdoorsy in that I like getting drunk on patios.

Brooke: Yes.

Stephanie: And I was like, yes, that is me. I could literally, in 10 years, the 10 years prior to that diagnosis, count on one, maybe one and a half hands the number of times I had been out in the woods. Hmm. So I'm like, where did I pick up Lyme disease?

Brooke: Yeah.

Stephanie: And, it turns out that it may not have been right then in 2016 or 17. It may not have been, a year or two years or five years before. I, I have a, a chronic version of Lyme disease that, has had me debilitated since 2017.

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: So my husband is very much in the same place that your husband was with, how can I help and what can I do? And I wish I could make it better. And, you know, he's exceptionally supportive, but there's literally nothing that he can do, mm-hmm, to help me with inflammation, or with Lyme spirochetes, or with, with the brain fog, with the fatigue, with, with my limitations. It's wonderful, but you know, and the support is highly appreciated. Mm-hmm , but there's nothing you can do to make it better. So I, I kind of understand that powerlessness both in your situation and in your husband, sort of watching you go through it.

Stephanie: With me, there's a, you know, there's acceptance, there's, trying to live within it and, you know, doing the best you can within those, those parameters that you've got. So yeah, I, I understand, and I also understand the fear that it's always gonna be this way.

Brooke: Yeah, mm-hmm.

Stephanie: I'm always gonna be debilitated. I'm always gonna be limited. I'm always not gonna be able to do the things that I wanna do. But it's false. It's false. Everything is changeable and changing and evolving. And so, I'm so glad that you were able to work yourself out of it, even though, as you say, you probably should have had a little bit more support, definitely medical professionals and pharmaceuticals and those kinds of things, but, I'm glad you were able to, to pull yourself most of the way through it.

Brooke: Mm-hmm

Stephanie: That sounds like a, a incredible, incredible experience, and job to, mm-hmm, to pull yourself out of that at the same time, taking care of a baby at the same time, planning a move at, I mean, ooof.

Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing is that, you know, we forget there's, in all of this, there's a baby who needs you 24/7.

Brooke: Like they can't do anything. You know, now she's, you know, she's pretty self-sufficient. But then, I mean, yeah.

Stephanie: Right. She was attached to you.

Brooke: She was a 100% attached to me. Yes. Yes. Very rare that she wasn't somewhere near my body.

Stephanie: Yes, mm-hmm, oh, Brooke. I'm just blown away at your story. I, I truly am. I, I can't imagine being in those shoes, mm-hmm. I'm sorry that you wore them, but I'm glad that you, succeeded and, brought yourself through that, whole and intact. I'm, I'm truly just dumbfound.

Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, the thing about it is, is that I look back now and I think about, you know, it just helps me remember how strong I am. Mm-hmm. And what I am capable of getting through. When I look back at some of my darker times, that being one of them that, you know, I, I got through that. And, and I, I kept a human alive. I mean, let's, let's talk about that. You know, forget about just me, like taking care of just me sometimes is hard.

Brooke: Like I kept a human alive, like relatively unscathed. So that is a win in my book.

Stephanie: That's a huge win. That's a huge win. I'm so impressed with you. I'm, I'm so impressed by your story. And, and like I said, I, I can relate to it in, in some, in some ways, even not having gone through that myself.

Stephanie: mm-hmm. And I'm sure that plenty of people who listen to this will be raising their hands and amen-ing all through your story.

Brooke: Yeah. Well, thank I appreciate you letting me tell it. I think it's, you know, when I saw that you were doing this, which I thought was fabulous, I sent the, the podcast to my, my friends and I listened to the, a few of them, the one with Jamie and I, you know, I thought I was like, oh, I, I, I wanna talk about this.

Brooke: . Because again, it's not a topic that most people are gonna think about, like turning 40 and being postpartum. Like when does that happen? You know, it doesn't happen that often. Right? So I appreciate you letting me tell this story. Cause I think there are people out there that are going through that or have, or will, and you know, to know that having a midlife crisis and postpartum depression and anxiety, you can survive at all. It's a rough road, but you will get through it.

Stephanie: Right. That's a great takeaway. You can survive it. You will get through it. And, and this, this too

Stephanie: shall pass.

Brooke: It will. Yes. Yes, it will. Mm-hmm

Stephanie: Brooke, thank you so much for being here with me today. I, I sincerely appreciate your, your honesty and your bravery for sharing all this. And I, I know that that people are gonna love to hear this story.

Brooke: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you having me and thank you for sharing a little bit of you, too. I, I really appreciate that.